How to Master DM Conversations to Convert High-Ticket Clients
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Initiating conversations in the DMs can feel scary and sleazy, but we don't need to make it so hard on ourselves. Join Katrina and Candace Chatman on the podcast as they discuss how to simplify those conversations so you connect with potential clients and start having a real dialogue.
Candace is a DM Sales Coach and Business Strategist who teaches other coaches and service providers how to use emotional intelligence and master the art of DM conversations to convert high-ticket clients. Her mantra is #theafraiddontgetpaid which is all about moving past any fears that might get in the way of making money or impact online.
The episode:
Katrina Widener: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Badass Business Squad podcast. I'm your host, Katrina Widener and I am so excited to have Candace Chatman on today. I know that everyone loves talking about how to promote themselves on Instagram, and we're really going to be tackling how to connect with people who are watching your stories and really building those genuine relationships on Instagram. So thank you so much, Candace for coming on today!
Candace Chatman: Thank you so much Katrina, super excited to talk about all things connecting on Instagram.
Katrina Widener: Yeah, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind starting us out really quickly just by telling everyone who's listening who you are and what you do and all about who Candace is.
Candace Chatman: Yes! So I am a business coach and I really specialize in DM sales. I'm super passionate about all things conversation, whether it's on a sales call or in the DMS or on a video. And I know we're in an industry where people really want to be able to connect deeply with the people in their audience, and like you said build that genuine connection. And that really comes from creating a conversation, immersing yourself in conversation. So that's what I teach. Whether that's the direct strategy of how to close the sell in the DMS, or just the more high level of being yourself and being more authentic when it comes to mastering sales and conversations.
And so I've been teaching that for about two years now, specifically going in and claiming DM sales. And before that, I've sort of been a coach as a life coach, and a manifestation coach, and a mindset coach. So I've had my fair share of different pivots and niches, and I think that really has helped me see that throughout all of those different pivots the one thing that has always been consistent are conversations. So that's what I'm really passionate about, and that's what I teach.
Katrina Widener: That's absolutely amazing and I particularly love it too, because for everyone who's listening, they all know I'm a big community person. I'm a big conversation person. So this is very, very aligned. I'm excited to talk about it today.
Candace Chatman: Yes!
Katrina Widener: So my first question for you is really just what do you wish that you knew when you first got started selling in the DMS, and actually utilizing this as a connection technique, but also a marketing technique?
Candace Chatman: Yeah, that's such a great question. I wish I knew that I could truly, truly be myself. Meaning mess up words, spell incorrectly, fumble, talk too much, be too silly, me. And that doesn't require any scripts really, or anything overly templatize to be successful. I wish I really knew that because you know, some of my past teachings were, you know, very formulaic. "You have to say it this way. These are the exact questions you must ask your prospects in order to close, blah, blah, blah, right?" And I'm like, "No, you just really need to be your fullest self and be comfortable in who you are and allow that to shine through in the DMs."
Katrina Widener: That makes so much sense too. I used to hear the idea of aim for B-plus, right? We're not looking to necessarily have every single thing be absolutely perfect. We're looking for it to be, I hate to say good enough, but it really is good enough, right? People are not going to be judging you as hard as you're judging yourself.
Candace Chatman: Exactly. And I always say, "How would you talk to your friend or how would you text your friend or your partner? Is that how you do it in DMS?" And if not, there's probably something misaligned. It should be very natural and free flowing. And that means making mistakes or repeating yourself maybe, or whatever it may be. It's not about being perfect to make money. And I really wish I knew that sooner. Probably would have made a lot more money sooner, and just been happier with what I was doing, you know?
Katrina Widener: Definitely, it makes so much sense. It also makes me think when we talk about selling in the DMS, a lot of people think about that cold call and I love that you brought up the scripts because you can tell when it's natural and when it's not. And having that natural conversation just feels so much better to both sides of the conversation, right?
Candace Chatman: Exactly. Exactly. I think they have their place and you know you can use them sometimes, but then it's like, what do you do with that template and how do you really make it your own? When people think about where they want to be in two to three, four years, I'm sure everyone's goal is not to still be using scripts. And so I'm like, "Learn the foundation of just being a great conversationalist right now so that you don't have to use them." That's my take on it, you know?
Katrina Widener: I love it. So when we're talking about selling in the DMS, what would you say is the power that this particular marketing technique has that maybe other ones don't?
Candace Chatman: Oh my gosh, the power? This is a good question! Oh, I like this question! Different than a lot of people ask! Okay, so this is why I think I have such a passion for it. I think it provides longevity and conversion, and what I mean by that is it's going to be around forever, that we're on like social media. You have to have a vehicle in which you talk to somebody. And I think especially as you scale a business, and one of the trends we're seeing especially in the business coaching arena, a lot of coaches get so big that they remove themselves from the sales process. And that's not either wrong or right, but I know from talking to thousands of people that they are so amazed when they're able to talk to the person that they're going to be working with.
And we're still in that age where if people can learn how to do that and continue to do that? They're going to see a lot more success I think, more so than people who are scaling the non-organic ways. In the sense that the connection piece. I can't tell you how many people I've worked with when I just wish I could talk to them, even just a little bit, and not their whole sales team. So I think the power of conversation is that if you can, somehow as a business owner, still immerse yourself in it as you scale, you're going to see that retention of your audience, and really get lots more resigns and a lot more people talking about you. Because again, as big coaches they've removed themselves and as someone who's on the come up and growing in their business and you know, maybe haven't quite scaled yet? I think the power is in you might not have all of the perfect skills that a "successful big coach" has, or the money to run ads, or the fancy branding. All you need is your voice and you to sell, right? You don't need perfect photography and an amazing website, just get in the DMS and talk to somebody. So the power is there in both realms.
Katrina Widener: That is something that I think makes so much sense, and I'm glad that you really brought that up and answer that question that way, because we're all thinking about our businesses long-term, right? And I see so often with my clients and I'm sure you see this with yours, that comparison game coming up, the imposter syndrome coming up. And when we're looking at these "high ticket coaches" (or entrepreneurs if you're not a coach and you're listening to this) and you're noticing, "Hey, these people are using techniques that I can't use," but understanding that there are techniques that you can use that have power in ways that the "high ticket techniques" don't.
Candace Chatman: Exactly.
Katrina Widener: And that like feels so empowering as a business owner to people say, "I know I have techniques at my disposal that are going to create a warm audience, that are going to really provide that connection. And yeah, that's powerful!
Candace Chatman: It really is. And my personal goal is, maybe as I scale there's going to be some things that I can no longer do, right? And already that's happening. But I personally want to be in my sales and talking to my people, and I'm not even considering myself some "big coach," "I have like 500 people in my program." No. But people tell me in the DMS, "Oh my God, I can't believe I'm actually talking to you." And I'm like, "Well, who else would you be talking to?" But that just goes to show you the reality of a lot of the industry removing themselves from sales. So I think it's very fascinating to see how that plays out.
Especially as Instagram really triples their awareness around the messenger, you know? They're talking about making it more expansive. I don't know what tools and techniques they're going to bring to the table for us to utilize, but they have made it be known that we have to leverage DMS, and they're going to be such a crucial part of Instagram. So I'm just excited to see more and more people take it seriously and immerse themselves in the DMS.
Katrina Widener: Yeah. It's just such an achievable, or maybe achievable is not the right word, but it's such a n at your fingertips sort of technique to use and it makes so much sense. Okay. So you have convinced everyone that if you haven't already started selling in your DMS now is the time.
Candace Chatman: Exactly.
Katrina Widener: So how would you recommend people get started? What tips and tricks can you give them for actually tackling this process?
Candace Chatman: Yeah. So a big misconception that people have is that they have to go outside of their audience in order to find people to talk to, and of course that sounds really scary and horrible, it's this big unknown, where are the people going to come from? And especially if people have under a thousand followers, I hear this a lot, "And my following is just so small!" I kid you not, I remember having just 180 followers when I hit my first 5k cash month. And then my second, my third was like under 200 followers.
Katrina Widener: Right?
Candace Chatman: So the answer to that question is to start in your audience, meaning the people following you. If we're talking about you all reaching out to people first, I think the strongest way to do this is from people who were initially following you.
So sending some sort of intro message to those, welcoming them to your community, telling them a little bit about who you are and then asking them a few questions around what they're most interested in seeing. Or sharing your perspective on your thought leadership, or what you sell or what you do, and then just driving the conversation from there and not just saying "Hi, welcome to my community. Thanks for being here, bye!" They're not likely to respond back, you didn't really give them anything. Ask questions. I always say be an investigator, start diving deep.
And then the other place is from your stories. Most people already as they start being on social media, people are watching your stories. People who are watching your stories, that's attention, there's interest there. So I personally believe the way to start seeing results is being bold and messaging those people from your stories to connect and share with them why you're excited, or happy or appreciative of them watching your stories, and start having a dialogue, asking some questions.
I think when you are reaching out to people, again, the perspective is to be the student almost. And when I say that, I mean be in the student's seat of, "I'm wanting to learn from you as my audience. What are you interested in? Tell me more about why you're watching, talk to me about who you are and sort of put on that hat." So that's the direct outreach. I think also if you're creating really good content, that's creating some buzz and engagement, that right there is again, another way that you can assume people are interested. So message those people who are leaving you amazing comments and start a dialogue. So when people really get down to it and ruthlessly audit, "What is happening on my page?" Pretty much everyone can find someone to message.
Katrina Widener: That makes a lot of sense, and that's something I even think about some of the most popular Instagram stories I've had or content I've had on my page, is when I am directly getting my followers engaged, right? Asking questions or doing polls or those sorts of situations. And especially when I'm asking them, "What are you looking for from me? How can I help you? What is the content that you want me to talk about? Why do you come and follow me in the first place?" And so it totally makes sense that that would translate directly to, "Oh, someone is initially following me right off the bat. I can ask them those questions right away. Right?" Like, "Thank you so much for following me. I love meeting people behind the screen on Instagram."
Candace Chatman: Right! Exactly.
Katrina Widener: "What are you looking for for me? How can I be of service to you?" Because especially for a business account, right?
Candace Chatman: Yeah.
Katrina Widener: I don't know about you, but I have like 35 accounts. But for a business account or a community account or I don't know, podcast account or whatever your particular topic that you're working on is, it's able to really allow you to serve your audience in a way that you can't do if you're not having those conversations.
Candace Chatman: Yup. Because the truth is a lot of people are not going to just come to you with that information, they're not even thinking that perspective, cause they're the customer. They're not thinking, "Let me just go provide you with this free information." So when people have this idea of like, "I'll just wait for people to come to me," not to say that you won't have any success, but it's a long game of waiting and just being experienced and being online for a while and building a community.
And we know in today's age that a lot of people like instant gratification. And so I always tell my clients like "If you want some faster results, be willing to take the actions. Be willing to say the things that others aren't." My approach to sales is really about being bold, be direct. I don't really love too much nurturing, or over nurturing for the sake of it. If you know you can help someone, say that already. If you really are having an amazing conversation and you think this is a dream client, tell them. Be bold, say the thing. And I think that will help people not only get faster results with whatever they're selling or marketing, but also get closer to people. Because you have to think about your customers, they want to feel heard and seen and listened to, and they want to know that you appreciate that they're within your audience. And so it's like, how can you say that and show that just as you would want them to say, "You're the coach for me. I want to take your program." How can you show that you appreciate them as well?
Katrina Widener: I'm laughing because it's actually just so simple, right?
Candace Chatman: Right? It's so simple but doesn't seem that way.
Katrina Widener: We as entrepreneurs, I feel like 95% of what we're doing is making things harder on ourselves than we need to, right? If you love that feeling of when someone's like, "Oh my gosh, I absolutely love working with you. You are the coach for me!" Or "You are the photographer for me," or whatever.
Candace Chatman: Right!
Katrina Widener: Wouldn't it feel really great to be like, "Hey, take this through your decision-making strategy, but also know, I love talking to you and I would love to work with you. You're my dream client."
Candace Chatman: Exactly!
Katrina Widener: We always say as the business owner, it's our job, especially when you're a service provider, to make sure that you are aligned with that client, right? You're not taking clients that aren't aligned with you. You're not doing extra work, bending over backwards to try to fit your services or offers for someone who really isn't the best fit for you.
Candace Chatman: Exactly.
Katrina Widener: And so it's also your responsibility to let the people who are really aligned with you know that.
Candace Chatman: Exactly! Especially as a service provider, if you're getting along with that customer tell them and say, "I think we could work very well together. You seem to know what you're looking for. You seem to know what you want." Tell them. You'd be surprised, those small things help the sell move forward.
Katrina Widener: And it also makes it feel way less sleazy too, right? We've all had those moments where someone has DM'd us out of the blue being like, "I have three spots open in this networking group. Do you want to come?" Or whatever it is, and I'm always just like, "No." Or I've had coaches try to sell to me in the DMs beforehand, where they're just like, "Are you going to sign up with me today?" And I'm like, "Ahh bleh, I need to just take 24 hours, make sure that this is the right choice for me." There's a way to say, "I want to work with you," that isn't putting pressure on the other person, and it's just genuinely saying, "I want to work with you."
Candace Chatman: Right.
Katrina Widener: I don't know why it feels revolutionary, but it does.
Candace Chatman: I think too, when you think about formal education, no one teaches you, "This is how you talk to people," and you'd be surprised just how much we actually could learn about that, especially as we apply that to business. But we already know how to have proper conversations with our friends, or if a friend is crying and sad you show empathy and you're like, "Oh my God, what's wrong?" So, for example in your DMS, if someone is telling you their challenges and their pain, you're not going to just overlook that and say, "Okay, just buy my offer."
You're going to step back, show empathy and understanding, lead with curiosity and really say, "Are you okay? What's going on?" You're not going to overlook that. So when you think about "What should I say in the DMS? How can I close this client?" Are you being a normal human being? Are you treating them like you would treat your friend? Are you being empathetic and asking questions? If your friend was telling you something's wrong and you never asked a question, she'd be like, "Are you listing. Are you engaged?" Right? It's the same thing.
Katrina Widener: It's just that energy exchange, right? Selling in the DMS can just be human to human "marketing", but also human to human connection, right? That's the whole goal, and that's what gets people at that place where they're comfortable actually purchasing from you. So thank you so much, Candace. This has been very very helpful and informative, and I think it'll give people a new perspective on what it means to show up on Instagram and actually have a marketing strategy that works for them.
Candace Chatman: Absolutely. I love this conversation and thank you so much for having me on the podcast day.
Katrina Widener: Of course. Really quickly before we hop off, would you mind sharing with everyone where they can find you if they would like to connect with you after the call?
Candace Chatman: Yes, Instagram is my happy place, and you guys can find me at @candacechatman_, and please feel free to share this episode and tag us and DM me anytime you guys want to, I'm always open. I love chatting with people, it's what I do every day. So yeah!
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