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Implementing inclusive language and practices doesn't have to feel like a big undertaking. Listen in as Megs Pulvermacher shares some small signals you can make in your business to share your support for the queer community.

Megs (she/her) is a queer community builder, podcaster, and speaker specializing in creating inclusive spaces and community-building experiences for the queer community.

Website // Instagram // Queer Impact Collective IG // Inclusion Consult

The episode:

Katrina Widener: Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Badass Business Squad podcast. I am very excited because today I am here with one of my friends Megs Pulvermacher. We were in a mastermind together over three years ago now. Look at us go!

Megs Pulvermacher: Look at us, look at us!

Katrina Widener: Yes! I'm really excited because today we're gonna be talking about inclusive language and practices for business owners. But before we dive into all the nitty gritty, would you mind just letting everybody know a little bit about who you are, what your business is, et cetera, et cetera.

Megs Pulvermacher: Yes, I would love to thank you for having me on this show. I already feel more badass-y and more businessy just being in the energy! So my name is Megs, my pronouns are she/her. I am a queer community builder. Most commonly known as Megs the Connector (@megstheconnector), that is an Instagram handle that I sort of randomly chose a couple of years ago, but it really is true.

I'm very much in the business of connecting folks to each other, particularly within the queer community. And providing different community spaces for queer folks to be able to connect, to support one another, to refer each other if they're in business. I have a business networking group, kind of a business professional networking group, called Queer Impact Collective. That is like a community you've never seen. You've never seen. It's a group of queer identifying change makers, which changemaker is a self-identified identity as well. But we get together via virtual meetups, which like so many things is something that came outta COVID, and just needing to have space for queer folks to be able to connect. And also because I was looking for a queer affinity space, meaning all the people in that space identify as queer, that was centered around business. And I couldn't find one so I created it and it has been life changing and business changing for myself and for many of the humans in it. And it's so fun to see. We've had members and people who have attended meetups in 32 different states, and we're up to eight countries where we talk about things we're doing in our business, we have spiritual meetups, we have networking, social meetups, and we kind of try to address the whole person because our queerness is relevant in all parts of our lives. So it's pretty awesome.

I also host a podcast called Out, What Now? It's all about navigating the ups and downs of the coming out journey, which is literally never ending and having as much fun as possible along the way. Cuz I don't do anything that isn't fun, and one of the things I think is most fun is having a microphone in my hand or near my face. So I also speak, I love working with businesses, educators, parents, to talk to them about inclusive language and creating more inclusive environments in businesses, in the community, in homes, in schools for our community. So a little bit of everything, which I believe is appropriate for my Human Design.

Katrina Widener: Yes, yes. Megs and I again have known each other for many years and we have definitely had many Human Design conversations, maybe over a couple drinks in the past. I also have to say that for any generators out there... cuz you're a Man-Gen, right? Manifesting generator?

Megs Pulvermacher: I am, yes. 

Katrina Widener: Yes. Megs is an amazing example of what it looks like to light yourself up every single day. As she said, she doesn't do anything if it isn't fun, and that's exactly what we're looking for. Also just to wax poetic for a hot second, it's been so fun for me to watch you from when we first met and you had your podcast then and how everything has grown since then. And it just feels like I'm watching you become even more and more and more authentically yourself, which is awesome and I love it and I'm here for it! Everything we talk about on this podcast, which is basically like "How to have your business that is such a true direct reflection of who you are as a human being" and I love it, yeah. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Yes!

Katrina Widener: Yeah. Which is also why I'm excited to talk about having inclusive practices in language and considerations for our businesses. Because we've been taught for a long time that we need to separate ourselves from our businesses and our business is this different entity. Which I truly believe, especially for people who are like us, who are the main person behind the business or the brand, to have a reflection of my values within my business is super, super important. But it's also really important to me to make sure that I am reflecting the audience back to them as well. So, yes. I'm very excited to have this conversation.

Megs Pulvermacher: Samesies.

Katrina Widener: Okay. So to just dive right in, I hope we don't need to tell everybody why this is important. So I'm gonna skip that question, and if you have any questions around that you can contact us afterward. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Yep.

Katrina Widener: But instead, how about we dive into how this can actually be implementable and how someone can walk away from this podcast and be like, "Okay I know some actions I can take. I know some ways that I can take my personal values and put them out there within my business as well."

Megs Pulvermacher: Yeah. When people hear the term inclusion or inclusive practices, I think it feels... it's one of those things that feels very big, right? Because we think of all the systemic bullshit that goes on racially, for the queer community, different faiths. There's so much to consider, and I think it can be a really intimidating space for people. Particularly if you're running a business as an individual person and you're a coach, or maybe you just have like a small team or something. To try to think of all of the ways you can possibly be inclusive is pretty overwhelming.

So what I would say to start is it is big, but the little things that you can do truly are small. They will feel small to you. They can be very automatic and they're little things you can do to send a big message to the people you're intending to include. 

And so if we're looking at the queer community (obviously I've said queer about 15 times since we've started this show, so that's where my focus is) -- if someone is coming into your business or being exposed to your business, whether that's on your Instagram account or on a zoom call, or they're walking into a space with you, or they're looking at the images on your website. Those are some of the little pieces that I think are easiest to implement in about two seconds. By the time we're done having this conversation, you can go into your zoom account and add your pronouns. If you're not familiar with what pronouns are... well we all learned what pronouns were in English class theoretically, but how they function in this space. The most common pronouns that you'll see, she/her, he/him, are ones that people are generally pretty familiar with. And then there are some folks who use they/them pronouns or gender neutral, gender fluid. There are a lot of different names and linguistics and things I could explain about all the nuances with that. But those three sets of pronouns are the most common you will see. 

By putting those in your profile or in your bio on your website, or Zoom, Instagram, LinkedIn. You can put pronouns on everything. And the reason for that is when you put them up, even if you don't identify as a queer human yourself, you're acknowledging that they are important and there's something that communicates respect and inviting people in. That doesn't mean that you necessarily have to have a conversation about what your pronouns are or that anyone is even gonna come up to you and be like, "Oh I saw your pronouns are she/her, mine are they/them." It doesn't mean they're gonna do that. But you create a space where you're acknowledging the existence and the possibility that someone might not be the same as you, which feels inclusive and nice and warm and fuzzy. And we like that. I mean hello that's an easy one, right? And the queer community has huge buying power!

Katrina Widener: Yes, and it's one of those things that's also interesting, cuz even as we're having this conversation, I'm like, "Okay, yep that's on my Instagram. Yep, that's on my zoom. Wait, I just created a new email signature. Should probably go and check that, make sure that it's there." Because it is something where we call it signaling, right? I hate saying, especially as a straight white cisgendered person of immense privilege, that I don't wanna say I'm creating a "safe space" because I'm not here to define what a safe space is for anyone else.

But to signal to people that even if maybe I don't necessarily have all the answers or I'm not doing everything the right way, that I am working toward learning more and more so that I can be showing up for people in other ways. Signal to people that this is a place where I am willing to also learn more, right?

Megs Pulvermacher: Yes. 

Katrina Widener: I'm willing to be told when I'm doing something incorrectly. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Yeah, and it's inviting people in and it's acknowledgement of existence, I think is a big thing. Because people aren't overtly putting on their website or in their email signatures, "Queers aren't welcome here." You know, right? It's like, just because you're not actively excluding doesn't mean that you're being inclusive. And from a queer lens, every place that a queer identifying person, whether they're out or not, walks into... we're looking for, "Is this safe? Is this welcoming? Is my existence acknowledged here?" And so going the extra mile to, like you said, signal, "Yes, we know you're here. We want you here. We want to keep you here and we want to be in community or business or whatever with you." So the intentional invite via that signaling is super important. 

Katrina Widener: Yes. I absolutely like that analogy. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Yeah, that's probably the easiest place to start because it's just text fields and a lot of things that you can do automatically, right? Language is so powerful. Because you can get on a call and people can kind of catch the vibe and you can build that trust factor in a one-on-one conversation. But to get folks to that space or to get them into your space, they're gonna consume a lot of your copy, a lot of your email communication, and sort of the voice you have and the language you use.

I, for one love to use my own kind of slang or voice or verbiage. I've never been a "babe" person. But "lit" or like "Keep it queer out there", I kind of have those catch phrases. As you're building your personal brand, you'll bring some of those different things in with whatever feels aligned for you or will speak to your ideal client. But looking at the linguistics of those things, and if you're using binary language, if you're trying to specifically get cisgendered women into whatever your offer is fine. That's fine, you can do that. But if you are open or looking to diversify your clientele, diversify your team or whatever you really want to look at, are you using, "man, woman, ma'am, sir." Things that are unnecessarily gendered. You can say things like "People, humans, y'all, friends, folks," whether you're speaking, whether you're writing. You can kind of create space for everyone to identify with what you're saying or to see themselves in your service or purchasing your product or doing whatever.

Katrina Widener: I really appreciate that, and it makes me think of someone who I followed for a really long time, who was a reseller of fashion items. This website was set up that you could purchase clothing that was more femme geared, and it was just titled "femme". It was not like "Women's, men's, right? Kids." It was, "Let's try to find something that's a little less gendered to still describe that this is traditionally 'feminine clothing', but not women's clothing."

Megs Pulvermacher: Right.

Katrina Widener: And I think it's something even as simple as that slight shift, or just having the forethought to think about that and say, "How could I possibly be like..." Is discluding a word? That's what's going in my head right now. "Discluding" people. 

Megs Pulvermacher: I'm open to adopting it. Yeah. 

Katrina Widener: Okay, okay. Well, it is now. But not including people via our word choice, right? It's something so small that maybe you haven't consciously thought about. But yeah, like you said, a really quick review could raise those questions of, ""Is there a different word I could use here? Is there something else I can say?" I know for myself, I say "y'all" on Instagram or in the written word a lot. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Mm-hmm.

Katrina Widener: My family is from Kentucky, Indiana, et cetera, etcetera. Yes I am a Minnesotan, but my family says y'all and so can I! It just makes it easier.

Megs Pulvermacher: I think imagery is important as well. If you're thinking about, you know, your website or the gifs you're using in your email or whatever. Queerness is largely about expression, right? You don't have to have a picture of two femme women kissing on a beach to be inclusive. You can, and that's great, and then I would probably have you be my wedding photographer. But you know queerness doesn't necessarily have a look. I'm a white cisgendered woman who is a lesbian with a very masculine presentation, and so I like a button up shirt. I'm like a sports-bien. So I love Under Armor and I'm gonna buy from them whether they have my imagery or not. 

But I pay very, very, very close attention to who is modeling the clothes or doing B roll for a coaching service. Like what type of people does this person serve? And so having a variety of expressions like hairstyles, body size, type of dress that they wear and how they express themselves is hugely important. There's so much value in having people who don't look like the norm in your images, be that on social media or a website as well.

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm. I think that that's one of those things that people don't always realize the impact of the imagery and it kind of still blows my mind sometimes when someone's like, "I have my website for instance, and every single photo is a photo of me." Having the ability to see yourself represented visually, is just as important as having yourself represented verbally or with the language or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. People normally like to look at or read through something and see themselves in it before they purchase. And it's just a very natural way that we can trust something beforehand. If someone meets you in person, they can make that decision. 

But if someone's never met you and they land on your website and, to go back to that wedding example, right? Every single couple on the wedding website is... maybe they're all white. Maybe they all are part of the abled community. Maybe they're all straight couples, etcetera, et cetera. And how can you provide that know, like, trust factor if that's not represented visually or in all of these other ways that we're talking about. And so I think that's like a very helpful thing to mention too. That's the goal in a lot of senses, is if your goal really is to serve all of these different types of people, then why would you be accidentally or intentionally not including them. Discluding them, which is my word now. Maybe it's real or not, we don't know. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Ha ha! Well and I can tell you, queer folks are looking for people who are actively being inclusive and making those statements. And those are the people they will hire, even if they cost more. 

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm. That's a great point. Yeah, it does matter. Like you said, there's a huge buying power in the queer community. Most places are playing it safe and catering to the "average" human being. And when you are catering and being inclusive to all of the other people, you're able to capture that in a different way. And I would argue you're actually able to cater to everyone when you're catering to everyone. I should say catering to everyone better.

Megs Pulvermacher: Yes!

Katrina Widener: Even the white straight, et cetera, et cetera, cisgendered. You're gonna be able to cater to them better too, because you're paying attention to everything. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Yes, yeah. A hundred percent. 

Katrina Widener: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, do you have any last little nuggets of goodness you wanna share? 

Megs Pulvermacher: I think one of the most important things you can do is in your business, just create a culture of conversation and asking every once in a while, "How am I doing? I think I'm doing pretty well, but can I get some feedback from a different lens?" Whether that's of a friend that you have, a coach, a consultant, there are all kinds of people out there like myself who can help you to go through your things and give you some direction. Because it does feel like a very big task if you're not used to scanning or kind of doing that self audit. But creating that culture of conversation, whether it's with your team, with yourself, with a consultant is mega important because things are always changing and we can all always improve. 

Katrina Widener: Yes. I absolutely love that advice. And I also wanna remind everyone, I'm sitting here on the call being like, "I need to go check out my email signature and make sure that that's up to date, too." If you find something to change, it's really easy to just change it. There doesn't need to be any like, "Oh no, I'm a terrible person!" Or shame or embarrassment or whatever. The important part is that you're going and looking and trying to learn about it and changing it. And moving forward and continuing to move forward, cuz it's also not a like, "And now I'm done. I did these three things. I added my pronouns to zoom and now I'm good to go and I never have to do anything else again." And it's yeah, it's just being open to being curious about yourself and how you've been operating and then open to change if it's needed. 

Megs Pulvermacher: That's where it's at. 

Katrina Widener: Yeah! Well, thank you so much for coming on here, Megs. I would keep talking to you about this for a really long time... 

Megs Pulvermacher: We could do it! 

Katrina Widener: Will you tell everyone, where they can find you afterward, how they can possibly work with you or just get you in their life more. Which also everyone I'm just gonna toot Meg's horn for her too, because if you don't follow her on Instagram you're missing out on like a lot of just happiness and fun and great music and good dance moves. So...

Megs Pulvermacher: If you can get to a place where you can have sound on, it's a much more wrap around experience because the music is all very intentionally selected. So anyway, Instagram is where I hang out the most. You can find me at @megstheconnector. You can also find me on LinkedIn, which it's linked in the show notes. 

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm.

Megs Pulvermacher: I assume. Those would probably be the two top places. And if you know anyone in the queer community who would be interested in being a part of a baller networking community, kick them over to Queer Impact Collective.com. They can get all the info, especially if that is you dear listener. Come on, come over and hang with us. If you are interested in starting to create that culture of conversation, and you want to sit down and take a look at your website copy, or your email signature or the forms you have, or just some of those little things and you want somebody super fun and queer and awesome, who wants to see you do well? I have 60 minute consultation sessions that we can go through together and look at what you have going on and just kind of get you pointed in the right direction, as far as creating more inclusive space in your writing or in your conversation starters. And as a podcast listener, you'll get a 50% discount with the code BADASSBIZ with a Z. 

Katrina Widener: Yeah! Okay. I will also link all of this in the show notes. So if you're like, "Oh my gosh, I want all of these things but I didn't memorize that", it'll be there! Full transcriptions, everybody! We gotcha! So anyway, thank you so much Megs for coming. I really, really appreciate it. 

Megs Pulvermacher: Thank you for having me. Keep it queer out there!

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