Why Your Offer Isn't Selling

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Whether you're in your first or tenth year of business, sometimes your offers just aren't converting! Join us as Peggy Re James shares tangible ways you can trouble shoot your messaging, strategy, and offers so you can create more momentum and conversions.

Peggy helps Service Pros and Coaches structure their business and sell with unshakable confidence so they can make more money and work less.

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The episode:

Katrina Widener: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Badass Business Squad podcast. I am very excited. Today I'm here with Peggy Re James, and we are going to be talking about what happens when your offer isn't selling, which I think a lot of people who are listening are going to be like, "Ooh yes, definitely! What do I do?" so, thank you so much for Peggy for being here today. I'm really happy to have you!

Peggy Re James: Thanks for having me, I'm excited.

Katrina Widener: Yes! So before we get started, would you mind just introducing yourself to everyone listening so they know who you are and what you do?

Peggy Re James: Sure! My name is Peggy Re James. I am a business and marketing coach for service pros and coaches, and I specifically help them create a scalable business so that they can make more money and work less. That is a thread that runs, through everything we do. I am a mother of four biological children. I have one foster daughter, and so I have five young kids under eight. And so it's imperative that I can run a business and run a family and be a mom and run a household. So that's super important to me to be able to not have to sacrifice my business or my family and vice versa. And so that is again, the thread that runs through everything. "How can we make more money while working less?" and simplifying all of that good stuff.

Katrina Widener: I am really excited because that's literally like what I have on my website, right? It's like, "How do we make more money doing less work?"

Peggy Re James: Yeah, yeah!

Katrina Widener: So we are very, very aligned and I think that means that everyone listening is probably really going to like what you have to say.

Peggy Re James: Yeah. I mean, who doesn't want to make more money and not work as much?

Katrina Widener: Exactly. Exactly!

Peggy Re James: Pretty universal need and want, right?

Katrina Widener: Exactly. Okay, so I know that we had talked about before starting the recording, that a lot of people listening today are really going to walk away with some tangible ways that they can view their messaging, or their strategy, or their offerings if they're not currently selling. So I think let's just dive right in!

Peggy Re James: Yeah.

Katrina Widener: What do you do if what you're selling is not actually selling?

Peggy Re James: Yeah and I think first let's demystify like this... everyone's going to have an offer that doesn't sell. So if you're currently experiencing that, whether you're the first year in your business or the third year, you're going to experience this at some point. So there's nothing wrong with you, but we can tweak some stuff.

So when an offer that I am selling isn't selling, there's a couple things that I do right off the bat. And that is, make sure that I have clarity on who the offer is for and what the transformation is. I think that is the simplest, and people almost get annoyed when I'm like, "So are we clear on who we're selling to, what the transformation is?" They're like, "Well, of course!" And then when I start asking questions, they're like, "Ooh, yeah, I'm not quite sure. Or it is actually a little bit more hazy than they think." So we can't sell an offer that we don't understand who it's for or what the transformation. That's really first and foremost, I go back to the drawing board. there.

Katrina Widener: I am so glad that you said that. It's literally what I do with my clients, so I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes." When we first get started working together, I have them fill out like a landscape assessment, and it's so funny because it's really just a whole bunch of questions that I'm making them answer in real depth about their ideal audience.

Peggy Re James: Mm-hmm.

Katrina Widener: And who they are, what they do, and more than just like a ideal client avatar, but like a like very, very detailed process. And it's so funny because almost every single time my clients are like, "Oh my god, Katrina's making me go back to this a fourth time or a fifth time or a sixth time being like, 'give me more. Give me more. This is your current client. I want to know about your ideal client. I want to know about who this is actually going toward. Not who you have happened to be able to sell it to as of yet.'"

Peggy Re James: Yeah.

Katrina Widener: And yeah, it's so important so I'm so glad you started with that.

Peggy Re James: And it's specific to the offer. I think often people are like, "Well, I have an ideal client." and I'm like, "That's great but our offers, they're a little bit more niche. And so you have to tweak that ideal client specific for the offer." My coach always has this example that I love. Sarah Dan is my coach, and she will say, "They're on island A and they want to get to island B, that's the boat that's going to get them there. What's on the boat? Right?"

Katrina Widener: Right.

Peggy Re James: "What... what do you have to do in between?" And that's always been a really great visual for me and filling in those gaps. But yeah, clarity is step one. Do we have the clarity?

Katrina Widener: Yes!

Peggy Re James: And then the next step is like, "Okay I have the clarity now." Let's just say you've done the work, you have the clarity. Now are we portraying that in our marketing? Because a lot of times you might know, but it's like... it's not on your sales page. You're not really portraying it in your content or your emails. Or you're not really saying what you want to be saying, you're beating around the bush. So it's that bird's eye view next of like, "Okay, I am clear. Am I saying it in a way that's clear to them?"

Katrina Widener: Yes. I'm glad that you mentioned that to like the island A to island B and the boat, because I feel like in your marketing, a lot of people are just like, "This is what you get." Right? "These are the things that are included in my package." Instead of, "This is the transformation that you get. This is like why it is beneficial for you."

It's so easy to go through and look at marketing just in terms of like, "I'm just going to tell you what my service is." But you need to tell the story behind it, and I love to call them identifiers. Ways of talking about who this service is for so that people can identify themselves in your marketing and in your messaging.

Peggy Re James: Yeah, they need to be able to see how it can work for them. Which is why the ideal client portion of it, as annoying as that can be, is so important.

Katrina Widener: Yes.

Peggy Re James: You know?

Katrina Widener: Yes! Even if you're on the sixth round of edits...

Peggy Re James: Yeah!

Katrina Widener: It's for a reason.

Peggy Re James: I always go back to it! And again, that's just like a little side note, like you're never too good to go back to those foundational pieces.

Katrina Widener: Right!

Peggy Re James: Like that is the backbone of your business.

Katrina Widener: So if someone's listening and they're like, "Okay sure my offer isn't selling, but how do I know if it's because it's the wrong audience? Or how do I know if it's because of the marketing?" What would you recommend for someone who's like, "Okay I want to dive into this, but how do I do it?"

Peggy Re James: Like the actual tangibles?

Katrina Widener: Yeah.

Peggy Re James: I think it's starting with the clarity, right? So if you've got the clarity and you're like, "I'm doing all the things, like I've done the work. I'm marketing, I'm showing up all of the places. I'm saying what I need to say, like it's all happening, right? And like nothing's happening."

Then you really need to take a step back and look at... this is like... my notes are right in front of me and this is kind of exactly what I have. It's like we have to look at our audience. And I know that can be annoying, but if you don't have the right people in your audience, you're not going to sell it. It can be the best offer in the world, but if you're getting visible to the wrong people, it's not going to sell.

And so you do have to take a step back and be like, "Okay, do I have a warm audience? And if I think my audience is warm, are they even right for the offer?" because what I see people like doing is like they create this amazing offer, but like their audience isn't ready for it.

And I'll give just an example. I used to coach virtual assistants, that's kind of how I kind of started my coaching journey. And they were new to business, right? First year just starting. And had I been like, "All right guys, mastermind! You know? It's 10 grand, it's six months." They might have been like, "That sounds fantastic, but also no."

Could've been a great offer and gotten the transformation... and that's an extreme, but I do see people being like, "This is an offer I want to sell." And I'm like, "That's fantastic, but if your audience isn't ready for it, then there's a couple things we can do." We have to fill your audience with the right people and that might take some time and some forethought and some strategy, or we need to work with the audience we have and work them up to that. Honoring yourself, right? And find tuning the dials where it feels good. I'm not saying offer something you don't want to offer just because there's always a way, but I think people want that instant gratification, and that's not how it works sometimes. Depending on how long you've been in business and what your audience size looks like and all of that.

Katrina Widener: I'm really glad that you brought that up. I talk a lot about buying culture with my clients and creating a buying culture where people are prepared to purchase your service or your offer. And oftentimes people might evolve themselves as business owners, but their audience hasn't evolved with them necessarily, and that's natural. That happens. But then you either have to train your past audience how to work with you or train your marketing to appeal to a new audience or to be visible to a new audience. And there's that subtle shift, and I'm so glad you brought up that mastermind example because that's literally what I just did this past year in 2022.

Crazy to think that that's last year, but in 2022 I shifted my beginner group coaching program to a more established entrepreneur level of a mastermind. And there was a lot of education with people around that. There was a lot of training my audience very slowly and I did a lot of ways to signal to them that the brand had changed.

Peggy Re James: Yeah.

Katrina Widener: I updated my branding. I updated the visual look of my website. I did new photography that had a more luxury feel. All new copy on my website, all new marketing and that meant that then when I launched my mastermind last June, that I was able to appeal to more established entrepreneurs.

Peggy Re James: Yeah.

Katrina Widener: Even though up to that point I had primarily worked with beginners.

Peggy Re James: Mm-hmm.

Katrina Widener: And it's so true, if I had just switched the mastermind and plopped a more expensive price tag on it, and then tried to get people who had been in the group coaching program to just all of a sudden transition? That would not have worked.

Peggy Re James: No! And it doesn't mean your coaching would've been any different!

Katrina Widener: Exactly.

Peggy Re James: But I have like in bold letters, like "It's nuanced." And so this is where you have to again, step back and really look at all of the pieces that you are putting out. Because you just saying like your branding had to shift and your messaging had to shift? All of that stuff matters!

Katrina Widener: Yes!

Peggy Re James: And you'll hear like... everyone has an opinion on this. It's like, "You don't need a sales page and you just need a..." And like I get all that, and I think that there's again lots of nuances. But if you want to be six figure business owner and you want to be a seven figure business owner, like these things matter. Usually it's a lot of little things, it's a lot of dials and that's where it gets sticky and overwhelming. That's where a coach comes in that can be super helpful to like see things that you don't see. But yeah I think that again, that's a misconception. It's like, "Tell me the one thing." It's like, "Actually there's like 15 little things we need to do."

Katrina Widener: Yes! I really appreciate that! Because it is! As a coach, you always get someone coming in and who's like, "I want to buy this course that's going to solve my problem. I want to hire this social media strategist, or whoever it is that's just going to... all of a sudden now all of my services and offers are just going to like fly off the shelves." Right?

And the truth is that it is, it's a series of very small changes and it is a mindset shift. I was talking about this in my mastermind meeting literally yesterday, where the difference between having a business that is making consistent money and that you can feel really confident in... is looking at it like a business.

Peggy Re James: Yeah!

Katrina Widener: I used to work in the nine to five world. We had people who were dedicated to all of these separate parts of our businesses for a reason. It wasn't like only marketing was the thing that was bringing in all of the big bucks. It was also the people who were doing the visuals. It was also the operations and the systems and the automations, and there are so many like small things!

And again, I appreciate what you're saying about being nuanced because it's so true. What might be the big shift for me is having my back end organized so that I feel confident. What might be the big shift for you is having the front end like updated so that you feel more confident or whatever it is, so you're appealing to the right people. But it's no longer looking at ourselves as service providers, but looking at ourselves as cEOs and business owners.

Peggy Re James: Yeah, and I think that goes back to what you do and what I do, which is making more money and working less.

Katrina Widener: Yeah.

Peggy Re James: In order to do that.. it lies in the details.

Katrina Widener: Yes.

Peggy Re James: Like it lies in every little piece. You know, it's.... it's the foundational pieces that are annoying that you have to work through. It's the systems, it's the sales processes, it's the marketing, it's the team members, it's all of that. It's all of it combined, and it can be really, really overwhelming, but just gotta chip away at it. And honestly, this is where like your offers not selling is really a very small part. Like it's a problem, but like it probably stems from all of these little other dials.

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm.

Peggy Re James: So if your offer isn't selling, then let's not look at just the offer. Let's look at your business as a whole, because likely there's a lot of connection points.

Katrina Widener: Yes, 100%. It's like how in the brain everything is connected to everything, and this is connected to this and this and this and this and this. It's the same thing with our businesses.

Peggy Re James: Yes, yes.

Katrina Widener: Okay so now that we've overwhelmed people with being like, "Everything's connected, work on everything." That's not what we mean, we promise! But when someone is looking to say like, "All right, so I want to make sure that my marketing, my messaging, my strategy, my offers are all like actually focused on the right people." What do they do next? Like what are the next steps for them to take?

Peggy Re James: Hmm. Well Katrina, that's nuance. Haha! I'm just kidding.... but I mean, it is going back to the foundation. Okay, so one of the really big things of why I don't think offers sell, is that you've not built enough authority.

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Peggy Re James: Like, you've not built enough trust or authority. It's not that you're... again, you could be the best at what you do, but if you're not portraying that like, "I'm really good at this." And you're talking about it in a way where you're like bragging on yourself. Like, "I know my stuff." Like, "I know what I'm talking about. You're better off working with me than if you did not." And coming with that energy?

I think as a whole, women we're like... I don't know... We're modest as far as like, we don't want to brag too much. We don't want to make ourselves big. We don't want to talk about ourselves. We don't want ourselves to be seen. And so we hold back!

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm.

Peggy Re James: And it's such a disservice to ourselves and to the people that actually know what we're offering. And so I think if you kind of have all the pieces and you're like, "What's wrong?" It just might be that people are like... they like you... they don't want to pay you. Because there's something else. Not that we're like in the comparison game, right? But there's somebody else that's showing up more confidently and there's just more trust built.

Katrina Widener: That's huge. I think that that is a ginormous factor for people.

Peggy Re James: Mm-hmm.

Katrina Widener: Because we live in this world where someone could be visual all the time, right? They could be on social media, they could be on your TikTok, they could be in your inbox, they could be on your Facebook. They could be showing up in all of these different areas, and if they're showing up consistently? And sharing their information consistently and really, really diving deep into this like, "I'm providing value."

Even if it's not like free education or anything like that. But they, like you said, they show up with that energy. They show up with that strong confidence. It's definitely going to be something that they might look at that person instead of looking at you. Because they can get consistent... really reassurance that that person knows exactly what they're talking about.

Peggy Re James: Yeah!

Katrina Widener: And so that's huge. That's huge.

Peggy Re James: Yeah, it really is. And it's showing up with like... detaching yourself. Which seems like counterintuitive, but detaching yourself from the outcome of selling the thing. Like when I can show up and be like, "I want to sell this to you, but like I'm not going to twist your arm." Like, "Here's what it is, it's really good. If you want it, I'd love to work with you. If you don't, that's cool." Right? And showing up with that energy is magnetic. If you show up with like, "I've got to freaking make this sale because I haven't made money," That energy, whether you think it's showing through or not, it is.

Katrina Widener: Mm-hmm.

Peggy Re James: And that's the intangible that it's really hard to kind of wrap your head around. But that energy matters so much. And I'm not super woo, but like I can tell when someone is trying too hard.

Katrina Widener: Yeah.

Peggy Re James: And when somebody's like, "Here's the offer. I don't need your money." Right? Like "I don't need to work with you. I'm confident in what that I'm selling."

Katrina Widener: Yes. I mean this is really this idea of being able to say again, that CEO versus the service provider. Being able to say like, "I'm a business owner and I'm selling this thing and it's amazing and it's great and I love what I do. And also there's no pressure for you to buy it because somebody else is going to buy it. Because it's amazing and it's great, and I love what I do."

Peggy Re James: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and that's confidence!

Katrina Widener: Exactly, exactly! And so often I feel like when people are first getting started out, they're like, "What connections can I make? Please come purchase from me! I need to make money. I need to make money. I need to make money." That's the energy behind it when it's really like, "No, this is just something that I'm selling because it is successful."

Peggy Re James: Yeah, and it is. I mean, I'm glad that you mentioned that when you're just starting out. Like it would've been very hard for me to do that like to...

Katrina Widener: Oh yeah.

Peggy Re James: Come at it with that energy in the first year of business. So what I can say is like, quick tip, if you are newer to business and you really are trying to sell something? Make sure that you 100% can get behind the investment that you're asking for, and the offer. Because I see people selling stuff, because like it has to be at this price point .And I'm like, "No, that's all made up. Like it can be at any price point you want it to be." The most important part is that you can get behind it 100% and you can say the number out loud and be like, "This is a no-brainer." Not that you're charging 10 bucks, right?

But like you don't have to charge five grand for something just because somebody else is. If a thousand dollars feels good to you and you're like, "I'm going to sell three spots for a thousand dollars because I know it's a like a no-brainer," Do that, like there are no rules. And so I think people put the rules on themselves and they don't actually feel good about the price point or maybe the deliverables they don't want to be offering. A lot of times they're self-sabotaging because they don't actually want to sell the offer or they don't like pieces about the offer. So they're like... you know. They don't know it, but they're self-sabotaging. Again, nuanced.

Katrina Widener: Right, right! Exactly. Like you're saying, it's nuanced. It's so specific from person to person because we all have our own baggage that we're bringing to the table. We all have our own things. I appreciate it too, what you're saying, like sometimes it is just that you don't actually want to sell the offer that you have!

Peggy Re James: Yeah!

Katrina Widener: I think about back when I first started coaching. I did primarily one-on-one coaching and I had a really low like monthly payment and they were month to month commitments and I was like, "I don't actually love doing this for the amount that I'm getting in return. It does not feel like a fair exchange of services. It feels like I'm pouring a lot in." And also the people I was attracting to a really low offer, month-to-month coaching commitment? Were not people who were really committing!

Peggy Re James: Shocker!

Katrina Widener: They weren't people who weren't getting, yeah, things done. They weren't doing their homework! And then they weren't actually giving me good results to show at the end of the day, so I also wasn't feeling as confident as a coach and all is so intertwined. And when I switched things around and I found my services that I'm like... I have two services! That's it. I love both of them. I've seen major successes from clients in both of them, and that's all I need. And now I feel so confident and I love selling those things because they feel so, so, right. And I think that that's a huge, huge part of it.

Peggy Re James: Yeah, it is. I actually, when I say like, "It doesn't matter what stage of business..." like a couple months ago I was selling an offer and it didn't sell, and I was like, "Why didn't it sell?" And then when I did the work, I actually didn't really want to sell it! It was like a VIP day. I just was like, "This is something I can sell and I love the offer, but like, I didn't want to sell it in the form of a VIP day."

Katrina Widener: Yeah!

Peggy Re James: And so I just didn't give it everything that I could have, because my energy wasn't behind it. The offer's great, but again turn the dials. I don't want it in the format of a VIP day. But you can do this to yourself, you know, at any point in your business and kind of lie to yourself. Really self sabotage and all of that.

Katrina Widener: Yes, yes. Okay, so I'm going to recap for everyone quickly just so that they're like, "Alright, so my offer is not selling. I'm going to look at my audience. I'm going to look at my marketing and my messaging. I'm going to look at myself, and if it's aligned with me. I'm going to double check that not only is it the right offer for my audience, but that I've taught my audience that this is the right offer for them, right? Like am I actually explaining why, as opposed to just explaining what." Am I missing anything? Is there anything else to add?

Peggy Re James: Have we positioned ourselves as the authority, can they trust us?

Katrina Widener: Yes! Yes, yes. Big one. Big one. I'm so glad that you remembered that. So before we officially hop off, will you just share with everyone where they can find you if they'd like to get in your world after listening to the episode?

Peggy Re James: Yeah, I hang out primarily on Instagram, so you can find me at @peggyrejames, the one and only, I'm pretty sure. And I show up there pretty much every day and we can connect there. And yeah, let me know that you listen to the episode and your biggest takeaway!

Katrina Widener: Well, thank you so much Peggy, for coming on. This has been absolutely amazing. I think people are going to get a lot out of it.

Peggy Re James: Yeah, I hope so. Thanks for having me it was super fun!