Maintaining Boundaries in Relationships

TUNE IN:
APPLE PODCASTS | SPOTIFY | GOOGLE

In any relationship, being able to ask for help while maintaining your boundaries is incredibly important. In this episode, wedding coach Jacquelyn Burt teaches us how to navigate honoring yourself and your loved ones while enforcing boundaries.

Jacquelyn Burt is a coach, educator, and award-winning wedding makeup artist. She combines her experience as a wedding industry pro with training in education and counseling to offer both on-site makeup services and personalized emotional support coaching.

Website // Instagram

The episode:

Katrina Widener: Hi everybody, it's Katrina. Today I am here with Jacquelyn Burt, who fun fact I went to high school with, but also is a member of the group coaching program and I'm very excited to have you on! Jacquelyn is going to be the first of our group coaching members who get to come on the podcast every once in a while.

So welcome. And I'm so excited to talk all about you and your business.

Jacquelyn Burt: Thank you. I feel like I'm already laughing in part because it's a joke in group coaching calls that I am usually like the first volunteer to do things. It's easy for me to be like, "Ah, got it. I'll go first." On brand, as they say..

Katrina Widener: Yes, definitely. So Jacquelyn, let's just start out by having you introduce who you are, what you do, who you help all that goodness.

Jacquelyn Burt: Sure. So yes, my name is Jacquelyn. I use she and her pronouns. I am a lot of things. I wear a lot of hats. Primarily these days, I work full-time at the University of Minnesota, actually.

I am an undergraduate academic slash kind of personal emotional advisor and counselor for undergraduate students. And it is that work that also has informed the work I do as an entrepreneur. So I currently am also a wedding makeup artist and a wedding coach. So I use the experience I have as a makeup artist in the wedding industry and combine it with the background and training I have in counseling and coaching to help people navigate all of the emotional things and challenges and relationship stuff that comes up during the process of wedding planning. And then if they also want me to apply makeup for them and their loved ones on the day itself then I will happily do that as well. So combination of services, but really just about helping people feel really good and at ease about their wedding experience, and then helping them feel beautiful as well.

Katrina Widener: I love listening to you talk about what you do, because it is such a unique thing. Like it's something that I know you've been able to find a handful of people around the country who do similar work, but when we think about like people normally who are doing the same work as us, it's a huge competition. So it's so fun for me to watch you do this.

For people who are like, okay, that sounds cool. But how does this actually get applied? Can you give like a real life example of how someone might come to you during wedding planning?

Jacquelyn Burt: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I actually recently had a client who got married at the end of January. And so they had hired me. They hired me before they got engaged which was very sweet. They happened to be a friend. From college. And they had been a bridesmaid in a wedding I worked as a makeup artist back in 2017. And then when I started talking more about being able to offer emotional kind of support services they were really excited about it and of course they were doing the bulk of their wedding planning during the entire year of 2020. Which, as we all know is when a lot of I'm trying to think of a PG way to say stuff hit the fan.

Katrina Widener: We can say a lot of shit went down.

Jacquelyn Burt: Good.

Katrina Widener: Swear away.

Jacquelyn Burt: Yes. A lot of shit went down. And I know that they had to make so many changes and shifting plans and navigating all of that pandemic-ness. And so reached out to her, asked if she wanted to have a little more one-on-one conversation with me about it. And she was great and said yes. And so what ended up happening was over the course of about a three month period I'd say, we would meet over a Zoom call and I would ask her how things were going, what sort of challenges she was facing, and most of the time it was relational challenges. And there was one specific example where a friend of hers who lives in California had decided that they didn't actually want to attend the wedding, they didn't feel safe, traveling, et cetera.

And so what I thought was so interesting about that is it wasn't just then the bride, the client coming to me and saying " I'm upset. And I want to talk about why and how I'm upset and how I can feel better." The conversation was about, "Okay, this sucks. I really would love for my friend to be there, but I understand that they don't feel safe or comfortable doing so. How can I talk to them about how I feel in a way that's going to keep the relationship feeling good for both of us and make sure that we still can be in relationship." So it was much more of a, almost like a communication skills conversation. And so it was really cool over the course of those couple of months -- learned a lot about what she and her fiance were going through with planning this wedding in the face of a pandemic, all of the relationship kind of hiccups and bumps that were coming up, and because I was able to work with her about some of her own values, her own communication patterns and habits.

By the time we got to the wedding day, she had also hired me as her makeup artist, of course, day of I was able to show up and like already have a sense of what was going on, who all of her important people were, what she was already worried about, the week before her wedding day, we had a crunch time session where we did like a values exercise together and I had her kind of pick like two, I think it was two or three things to center on for the day. And so then in the middle of makeup applications and everyone running around and trying to eat and trying to get stuff done, she would literally reach out her hand and touch me. And we would ground on those couple things.

And then right before she walked down the aisle, we were in the back of the church together, just the two of us and it was just so special and so cool that not only had I applied her makeup for that day and she looked beautiful, but also, we were able to do a quick deep breathing together really center back on what she had picked back in like October and this wedding was at the end of January. So yeah, just a really, it made the whole process, not just like "I'm getting married!" and instead an opportunity for her to be reflective and use the experience as the transformation that it is.

I'm like getting emotional. That's the thing, right? It's an emotional, an emotional experience.

Katrina Widener: That's one of those things that it is so fun as the coach. For like you, or for me to be able to see that transformation. Even if someone, themselves maybe is kind of like, I feel like nothing has shifted. It's like, well, I can see the shifts. I can see the changes. I can see the big picture. I think one thing too, that you talked about which I'm really glad that you touched on, was this idea of the emotional aspects of the wedding, because I know you get the question of so are you like a wedding planner or what's the difference? And so kind of touching on like, no, this is what I'm focusing on. Do you have anything else to add in case anybody else is like, but wait, what's the difference between you and a wedding planner?

Jacquelyn Burt: Yeah, yeah, that's a really great question. Very understandable question. Very common question. I have been in the wedding industry for about six years at this point and have many colleagues, many vendor partners, who are professional wedding planners and they are stupdenous. And what I think is extra funny about that question of " J, are you a wedding planner?" is that I would be such a disaster as a planner, like the work that my colleagues do as professional wedding planners in you know, handling logistics and being really detail-oriented and looking at like multiple moving pieces and parts. I will sometimes try to split as like your planner does your logistics and I'm here for your feelings.

So ideally clients who are getting married, when they're hiring vendors across any number of professions, photographers, or caterers, or florists, the whole crew in a perfect world, all of your vendors are able to help you feel seen and supported and if you call them and you're upset or having a lot of anxiety, they're able to relate to you in a way that is comfortable and supportive, but with so many of us and by us, just wedding industry professionals, it's pretty unique. Like the most tangible example I can think of is I have many beauty professional colleagues -- hairstylists makeup artists -- hair and makeup typically happens in the morning and the day is, right, just getting started, everyone's really excited, and when I was speaking with colleagues about this recently and talked about how when I was doing makeup primarily, I would still offer to have my clients have me stay throughout the day.

And all of my colleagues were like, are you kidding? Like I can't get out of there fast enough. And not in a bad way at all, but in a wow, like emotions are really high. Like the energy is really high. I'm like, I'm there, I'm going to do my work. I'm going to make sure I do a great job. I really care about the people who are there, but like that atmosphere is so heightened that when I'm done, I'm ready to dip, get me out.

So part of what I will say to clients who are like, wait, what are you doing? I really have the training, the skillset, and the desire to take that really heightened, emotional experience and kind of approach the wedding planning experience and the wedding day experience from a lens of "You've got a lot going on and everyone around you, even if they're not as conscious of it, also has a lot going on emotionally." Your planner is going to help you with a seating chart. I'm going to help you figure out like when your mom is having a panic attack and you're frustrated about it, but you don't want to tell your mom that you're frustrated because you are. True story. Navigating that that is not what a planner will do with you. Certainly not in the same way.

Katrina Widener: Thank you so much for clarifying that. Cause I think that a lot of people are going to be like, Ooh, I get it now.

Jacquelyn Burt: Ideally. Yes.

Katrina Widener: Yes. So I'm really excited because Jacquelyn's going to share with us today a little bit of advice or tips and tricks on how to actually ask for help from your loved ones while still maintaining those oh, so important boundaries, but I'm just gonna throw things over to you and let you share your magical goodness.

Jacquelyn Burt: Oh my goodness. Magical goodness. Yeah, so I feel like I should say, too: So as I've been leaning more into coaching as something I can offer to my wedding clients, I've been doing so much question asking of people like, "What do you actually want? Where would you need support?"

And so I had asked a question on my Instagram story several weeks ago and I had posed it as a poll and had asked the question... I asked several, I think it was like seven or eight. And for almost all of the questions, there was a definite " Oh, like for sure this one or for sure that one," and the one question I had asked about "When it comes to how your wedding planning experience is going so far, do you need more help, like asking for help from your loved ones or setting boundaries with your loved ones?"

And it was the only one that was a dead 50/50. And I found that really fascinating. Not surprising, I'll say, but definitely fascinating. I think that boundaries is a term that has become it's more of a buzzword, right? It's a little bit more in the zeitgeist. I think that as mental health awareness and stigma fighting has become more popular (I can't think of a better way to put it in) the last couple of years people are more conscious of maybe what boundaries are.

Part of the work that I do as a coach, especially when it comes to weddings, is helping people distinguish between knowing what something is, and then looking at how it's functioning for them. So I can know what a boundary is. It's harder, or it takes a little more conscious thinking, a little more creative thinking, to look at how the boundary is functioning in my own brain and my own relationships, right? Personalizing it. When you ask folks to be involved without some really clear communication and some like expectation navigating, figuring out, involvement can then start to feel a lot like intrusion depending on what dynamics might already be at play.

And it's one of those things too, and this was my own experience when I got married which was over five years ago now, which is so wild to say out loud. I know. So when I was doing my wedding planning I was very conscious of involving my now spouse's family. Really wanted to make sure that they like felt involved, included, et cetera. So from my perspective, I really thought that I was going like above and beyond, or out of my way to include them in things like, helping make some of the decorations or helping design the custom cocktail that we had.

And about a month before the wedding, as is pretty common, some emotional conversation ended up happening about how they like still didn't feel very included and wished they had been more included. And I just right in retrospect, found that so interesting to think that like here I was thinking I had been asking them for help and like things that weren't maybe my first instinct, like it was in my head just going to be me and my mom just knocking it out. So here I am thinking I'm really including them and they still like, they didn't feel that way.

When we want to ask anybody for help, what I find over and over in my personal experiences and in the experiences of my clients, is that the more specific you can be about what you need from someone, and then also the more expansive you can be and open to possibilities. So there's already, I know I just introduced a duality, I'll get there. The better. So when I'm talking about being specific, what I mean is if I ask somebody to help me with wedding planning, that's wide open, right? Versus if I have something like I'm needing to tie little name tags around individual favors, and I know that it's going to take two and a half-ish hours and I pick a Sunday afternoon and I'll have some snacks. Can you come over on Sunday afternoon from two to four and help me tie these tags. Cool. That's something that's a lot easier for people to say yes to.

When I'm talking about being expansive and open to possibility, what I'm meaning is that I see for clients who are able to have conversations about what support or help looks like for them, those tend to be more successful. So depending on the individuals involved, if help looks to you like somebody showing up and helping with a task, it is reflecting back on almost like a love languages type of lens. So something like acts of service would be then, right like showing up in person, specifically doing this task for a specified amount of time.

If support looks, feels, sounds like you can call them when you're feeling stressed out and just talk about your feelings for 15, 20 minutes, then that's something totally different. So when I'm talking with clients about how to ask for help, usually the first conversation is like having some of those mappings almost around what are some specific examples and then what are some more expansive? What are we really talking about? What does help mean for you? And it can get at almost everything goes back to values conversations and how you feel supported, what that looks like, what that feels like. So that's a first tier, I would say when we're thinking about asking for help and then also keeping some boundaries. I think too, it's important for me to note that when I'm talking about boundaries as a coach, I'm almost always talking about flexible rather than fixed boundaries. And that ties back to what I'm saying with regard to being open and expansive, open to possibility.

I think it can be easy or like a common experience to think of drawing boundaries in a really fixed way and wanting to keep things pretty compartmentalized and tidy. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. And of course there are many situations where that is super appropriate. But I think having boundaries be flexible and dynamic is also something that I end up working on a lot with clients and just developing a little more emotional resiliency around how a boundary can flex and shift while still keeping you feeling safe.

Katrina Widener: I think that like first and foremost, all that information is so juicy for people listening to pay attention to because yes, we're talking about weddings, and we're talking about celebrants, but this is stuff that people can take into any conversation they have with their loved ones. This is information that you still can apply to other situations. So what would be one last piece of really like implementable advice that you would give everyone listening? Of just this is in the moment when you're having these conversations, when you're looking to ask for help or when you're trying to set boundaries, like I would recommend thinking about this or doing this.

Jacquelyn Burt: Yeah. Ooh. I think I'll go with what is coming up first for me. It's something I encourage to do my clients and my students whenever they are approaching more complex or like emotional conversation. And that is I just call it looks like, feels like, sounds like. It is not an original that's not my idea. There are variations of that all over.

But I'll think of a concrete example. So I will go with, I'm thinking of 40 examples at the same time. I'll do something, not weddings. I'll go with the Christmas Eve holiday. Looks like, feels like, sounds like if I know, for example, that I'm trying to make plans for a holiday gathering celebration, et cetera.

And I'm going to need to engage my spouse in conversation about what my thoughts or expectations or desires are for that celebration. Beforehand by myself, I will sit down with a piece of paper or a Google doc or a series of post-it notes or whatever. And do a looks like, feels like, sounds like. So the questions I'm asking myself are like in an ideal situation, when I think about what I want this holiday celebration or gathering to be, how will I know if you know that it's a good experience, what will it look like? What will it feel like? What will it sound like? And get really specific.

Looks like, and I'm thinking about who are the people who are there? What sorts of sounds are going on? Is there music playing? What sort of conversation am I hearing? What conversation am I not hearing? And feels too, you can get as, as woo-woo or as vibey as you want, or you can get really specific. But I really just map out on that sensory level like how will I know that this celebration or gathering is what I'm wanting it to be? So I will put together my own looks like, feels like, sounds like also you bet your booty, this is actually what happens in my marriage. I make my engineer spouse do this. So I'll do that for myself. I'll encourage my spouse to do it.

It doesn't always happen. It's usually fine. And then we'll do, a looks like, feels like, sounds like together. And once you've identified what what we're trying to construct or achieve, or invite other people to, then we have a lot more language and a lot more of an agreed upon idea of what we want to take place.

So you can use, looks like, feels like, sounds like with literally anything. I like it too, because it allows us to actually think really consciously about what we want.

And come up with actual words and language for then communicating what we want and what our expectations might be. So that's a really good one. I do that all the time with clients.

Katrina Widener: I love that too, because I think that it translates so easily into business. I can imagine people doing that for their business overall. What does this look like? What does this feel like? What does this sound like? But also like, a conversation with the client, or like dealing with difficult conversations with people you're partnering with, if you're hosting an event or a webinar or a conference or whatever that looks like there are so many applications for that sort of exercise. Those are the things I'm like. Ooh yes, juicy!

Jacquelyn Burt: Yeah , me too.

Katrina Widener: Thank you so much for coming on here. I am so excited that I get to be like, "Ooh, this is one of my clients. Let's brag up on her for a little bit." Um, Okay. So where can everyone find you?

Jacquelyn Burt: Sure. I would say I'm probably most active on Instagram. So my business name is First Looks, LLC. I could go into a whole spiel on how I came up with the looks like feels, like, sounds like for First Looks.

@firstlooksllc is my Instagram handle. FirstLooksLLC.com is the website. And then firstlooksllc@gmail is my email address. So there's a contact page on my website. Instagram is a great way to get in touch with me. And then email is always great too.

Katrina Widener: Perfect. Yes. And I think everybody should go over and follow Jacquelyn because even if you're not planning a wedding, she has little nuggets like this, so you can apply to other aspects of your life. But anyway, thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing.

Jacquelyn Burt: Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you.